We. Are. F.U.C.K.E.D.

It's scary. 11 states with the same referendum, and not a one of em shot the ban down.

I'm going to be sick.

The streets should be running with vomit by now...
...what the fuck happened???

I keep hoping that I'll wake up. Or that somehow, like the Red Sox - Kerry will win. And then the Patriots will win. And then Massachusetts will take over the world. Hah.

Also, is there any scientific correlation between pooping and a John Kerry victory? Does the bowel movement of dooce as we know it rest on this election?

(sigh) no better news in the am.

And just because I have to..Mr. Kano who was saying that liberals are going to whine and republicans aren't...I'm calling hooey on that one. Because you know, that's EXACTLY what they did when Clinton won a second term. They rolled up their sleeves and got to work. Riiiiight.

You may be the rare exception though, so thank you for your support. :)

At this rate I will never be able to come home again...

Kathleen, we did not elect Bush 4 years ago. The Supreme Court stopped the recount and handed him the presidency. Al Gore won the popular vote. That is why so many on the left are so bitter and so upset. Plus, war in Iraq, Osama still at large and God everywhere.

I've been giving some thought to what happens next if it's official that Bush wins (it ISN'T official as of me writing this). We can't drop out of the process discouraged. We must continue to stand opposed to every one of Bush's plans that we disagree with. No matter what happens, we can't cave.

I cannot believe this passed. I don't think people were reading into the true meaning of the amendment. It's not just about marriage, it's about who will/will not get benefits and be able to visit their loved ones in the hospital,etc. etc. Lame, people, LAME!

David Letterman: "Hey, I saw your sister with Mary Cheyney, but there was no sign of Dick."

The civil rights of minorities have always been challenged at every turn in our country and throughout the world. Losing one major battle won't lose the war.

Well look at it this way.....All you liberal whiners won't have to go on that diet you have been meaning to since you are so busy puking your guts out and crying

Seriously, what hte fuck are we going to do? I'm thinking of becoming a citizen - Of France!

The sheeple have spoken and now we all have to live with it. Who ever said the U.S. was a forward thinking country? It has been my experience that most of its citizens are self-centered, ignorant, and prejudiced conservative Christian rednecks, but then, I live in the South . . .

It just all feels like one very very bad dream. All I can say is that at least Feingold won and Bush didn't win my state of Wisconsin!

Leader of the free world?

BWAHAHA!

Four more years of:
-crazy terrorists
-bigotry
-bad grammar
-moving closer to 1984
-me wishing I lived in the day when I could challenge a man to a duel...

"Well look at it this way…..All you liberal whiners won’t have to go on that diet you have been meaning to since you are so busy puking your guts out and crying"

vs

"You people on the other hand can’t even lose gracefully…..Instead it will be whining bitching and moaning from now on."

Again, I would say that republicans are just as bad about the whining and bitching and moaning. Remember the 90s?

Also, it is painfully obvious that some people of the conservative bent are sore "winners". Wheter it be in Iraq or on some comment board. I believe your next line in "nanny nanny boo boo" :)

Somebody delete Kano's ass.

It was very discouraging last night, to watch and listen to Robert Novak (UGH!) talk about how conservative the nation has become.

Gay marriage will never be "legal" in this country, at least not while the Republicans are in control, which appears to be for quite a long time.

Looks like my partner and I will have to move to Canada.

PS to Kano: Eat a bowl of dicks.

As far as I'm concerned today, the gloves are off. Maybe I'll be more chill in a day or so, but not right now.

The ONLY frigging good thing about this election is Obama won in Illinois. How is it so many people are willing to trade their civil rights for a false sense of security against a nebulous threat? How is it so many people will vote for a man that purposely plays up their fears? How is it so many people don't care that Bush is a certifiable idiot that can't string together a well-spoken sentance if it's printed on the teleprompter in front of him? Well, as our constiutional rights are trampled, our environment destroyed, our international legitimacy pummeled and our economy spirals downward I just hope all the Busy voters remember that they brought it on themselves.

I woke up this morning and apologized to my baby girl for the fact that the basic civil liberties that we, her parents, have grown up with and taken for granted will slowly be eroded in the next four years and that it will take her entire life to fight to get back.

I want to throw up.

there's fucking plenty wrong with this fucking cuntry (<---NOT mispelled).

fuckity fuck fuck

I'm fairly positive the ban didn't pass in Oregon, where it's called "Measure 36," not "3." So there IS some hope...

*sigh*

I thought we had more sense than this...

I reside in Austin, Texas which happens to be the state capital and located in Travis County. I'm proud to say that Travis County choose to elect Kerry over Bush.

Ben Franklin may be a dickhead, but GWB is a penis wrinkle.

I AM a citizen... OF FRANCE. While I was going to move my fantastic French husband back to the greatness that is the US, I may rethink & wait 'till 2008!

As for this quote; "Voting for 'anybody but Bush' just isn't a way to vote..." Okay- what if your child was being beaten by the babysitter and someone else offered to come in & NOT beat your child... that's not better? You'd rather KEEP the abusive babysitter simply beacuse you don't KNOW if the other one is better or not? (I didn't vote that way- I DO think Kerry would be better- by far. IMHO)

Trust me, [politically unaware] GUN weilding Americans are not welcome in FRANCE. Strict gun laws here- Just one of the many perks about being here. This country is SO focused on serving it's people, not it's people focused on serving it's government.

For those who feel awful today- I'm right there with you. I'm hoping for a miracle, but even my hair seemes depressed today.

(I think we can safely ignore Kano's comments- he's obviously not burdened with class or decorum so he eliminates his own comments by how crass they are.)

Group hug needed I think!

As a outsider I just want to say that what I am seeing is a country that has an OPINION (one way or anither) and is interested in politics - just look at those lines of people wanting to vote! This has to be a good thing!

This election has made people sit up and take notice of the decisions all poiticians make on our behalf.

I truly believe that if people can stay this focussed on what's going on in America and around the world that in 4 years time it wont be a close call; that the democrats will 'walk it', in the name of common sense!

What president were these people watching?

so much for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Good luck to you in the U.S. - us Canadians are depressed right along with you.

I pray for our sons, the young boys in our country, especially those who will be of military fighting age in the next 4 years...

It is a sad, sad day in the United States. I am seriously thinking of moving to Canada. At least my family and I will be out of Bush's grasp. Keeping my fingers crossed for luck in Ohio.

What bothers me most about the amendment passing is the complete disconnect. People are actually blind to the fact that they have just set the precedent for their own discrimination. Kiss your civil liberties goodbye people, the rollbacks are in full swing.

A little reading material for all the women who didn’t vote.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/06/south.carolina.ap/

http://www.alternet.org/rights/20162/

Awash in a sea of red.
WTF happened?
I know I live in the liberal bubble of NYC but is the American public blind, deaf, and dumb?

I am beyond disgusted.

I had to tell my 5 year old daughter that Kerry will possibly lose this election, and she cried in my arms. I am not happy today.

Kano, my man.... if Kerry were the one on top, I think your comments would be filled with allusions of bodily functions.... Why are you surprised at what you're reading? I thought you could figure that one out. You are not a good representation as a Bush supporter with your low-brow sarcasm. I would respect you more if you gave a good argument instead of throwing mud.

I feel pretty bummed myself, but I can still eat!!

I heard a guy on NPR say, "I don't like Bush. I don't like his politics, his beliefs, his decisions... but I'll vote for him because I'm rich & he'll keep me that way." UGH.

The view from here, Cristina #69 is that yes... 1/2 of America IS blind, deaf & dumb. Anybody got any ideas how to work hard NOW to change that fact??

First of all, people should read more newspapers instead of sucking their news off the TV. Far more balanced. Also- Americans need to learn way more about international politics & news... it DOES matter. I was one of those who didn't pay enough attention years ago, I thank God I do now!

And, I was raised Baptist. But I don't think for a minute Bush truly has a clue who God is. Actions speak WAY louder than words.

I've read abortion rates have gone UP the past four years? So- Bush is pro-life? Really?? It takes more than anti-abortion laws to lower abortion rates. A safer environment. Better education. Better SEX education (not just abstinence!), more jobs, less discrimination... these things too help lower abortion rates. It's a GLOBAL picture I voted for, not for one item or the other.

What a guy does overall creates success or failure, and I believe Kerry's policies, while liberal, would create a better environment- which in turn would lower abortion rates, etc.

The map that is "'awash" in red, is pretty much exactly the same as it is every election. The bread basket tends to vote republican.
The christian uber-conservative right has been growing in the US since the early 80's.

My boyfriend (who is republican who decided not to vote for a president this year) described it as being one half of the nation is getting more and more conservative and is desperately trying to hold on to "traditional" values while the other half is moving toward more "progressive" values. Both sides freak each other out, neither one understands the others view point, and is causing a true divide within the nation. It's just sad really.

*Wakes up, looks at the newspaper* Holy shit. Holy shit. Holy shit.

I still do not understand what moral values have to do with politics in this country ... in other countries people would be joinging together and doing something about these issues; here one figure can decide for all of us what is morally right or wrong bases on their moral values... makes no sense to me.

The Presidential candidates differ only in their moral values, what they think best for them translates into what they think best for their country. We are forgetting to think that our values are no more real than the values of others .... the right to gay marriage is obviouly important for gay people, what right does a non-gay population have to ban it? That is the same thing as me having the right to ban all alcohol or all smoking; because i don't do it and don't believe in it I don't have to right to screw the rest of the country.

Don't get me wrong here, I am not bringing anyone down ... I just can't understand why these topics are political. What difference does it make if man wants to be with man or woman with woman, are they afraid it may be a step closer to a man or woman wanting to marry a different species?

Really, I live with a very conservative man who believes this decision is right, and for the life of me I can't make him see the big picture ... makes sense why it is so difficult to get allow same sex marriages when there are people as stubborn in the world as my DH .... but should America's moral values be left to the disgretion of a few people who are just extremely close minded?

A person is a person and as long as he/she is marrying another person who gives a flying fuck?

IT'S FUCKED UP (the country that is). Let's all move - TO FRANCE!

I don't know how anyone with a child could vote for Bush. Do these parents not care that their kids will be paying huge taxes to make up this deficit? Do they not care about crappy underfunded public schools, where kids are taught nothing more than to take a multiple-choice test?

Well, even if states will not recognize same-sex marriages some corporations are starting to. Enterprise Rent-a-Car is now providing health coverages for people in same sex unions. Perhaps the next four years will be enough to get this apathetic younger generation mobile. Only 17% of 18-24 year olds voted. After they are drafted - you too ladies- maybe they will start to excercise their rights.

Why can all of Europe see what we have such a hard time seeing -- that the election was rigged in 2000 and again this time? Because none of us wants to say out loud that the great USA is now no more democratic than any despot-ridden third-world country. It is heartbreaking, but only for a moment, until we get up off our complacent duffs and take our country back!

The thing about the push for gay marriage that I don't get at all is this: instead of clammoring for the allowance of gay marriage, why not take it one step at a time and strive for a legal union which will provide legal rights to the couple? Once you have established those rights (the most important, in my opinion), then work on the next step of establishing the union as a marriage. I just don't understand why people get caught up in a term and not focus on what is more important, which are the rights that union provides.

I am very pleased president Bush is re-elected. I am sorry you democrats seem to see everything as gloom and doom, but hopefully we can all go forward and try and mend our wounds now.

I am a dual UK/US citizen (born in Arkansas) who is seriously considering renouncing my American citizenship.

I have far more freedom and a greater sense of well-being in England. My healthcare is excellent and free at point of use, and there is a social conscience here.

Plus you can go on vacation--IN FRANCE!

I would advise anyone who finds Bush intolerable to look into emigrating. If everyone who has heard "love it or leave it" actually did, the sad, sick group of individuals who would be left over would drive the country into the ground in short order.

Watching this from Canada... Hard to believe this is happening. I hope those who got Bush re-elected (looks like it so far) realize that in a way, they will be responsible for whatever he is going to do.
By the way, you're welcome to move over here, although I must warn you that most people in Montreal also speak that language... OF FRANCE! ;)

As Jon Stewart said last night, "It reminds me of a dream I had......... where I wake up CRYING."
So backwards. Let's preserve an institution that even the homos can't get right because, by god, those people ain't like us and therefore, no rights for them. The Statue of Liberty weeps, once again.

HaHa..."propsed"!

Cristina #92:

Kerry is "against" gay marriage, but does not believe it is the national government that should decide the issue. He believes it should be up to the states to decide.

George Bush, and many other Republicans (including my state's ultra-conservative Marilyn Musgrave), have openly supported and tried to draft a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

There is a HUGE difference there. Don't kid yourself - this is a religion-right idea, and I'd guess that 95% of the religious right are Republican.

i'm almost amused that no one realized it would ban common-law marriages. a lot of people depend on that to reap their civil rewards. but they covered that up, so they could push the "gays are the devil and we must make them unequal" part of the amendment.

sadly, it passed in michigan too. and michigan went to kerry.

You know, I started this as a snarky comment pretending not to miss all the things we'd lose under this administration--environmental protection, women's reproductive rights, funding for science, marriage rights, an equitable tax burden--but it just got too long and too depressing. I can see the future, and it's not pretty. My only consolation is that I can stand up and say "When Bush appoints his ultraconservative judges to the Supreme Court, I will stand in the street and burn an American flag" and not fear arrest.

I'll follow up on that, too. We burn the flag in this country when it has been dishonored. It is not hating America to say "I would rather burn this flag honorably than have it fly over a travesty of justice."

Wow. I have to say that I am somewhat surprised by the tone of most of the comments today. The election is over; most of the votes have been counted. Things might not have turned out the way we wanted, but I don't think we should be moping and whining. I am not going to say, "This country sucks," or "I'm moving to Canada." That's ridiculous. This is a time to remain standing for what we believe in. People can still make a difference. I don't want anyone's pity or condolences. I am strong enough to continue fight the good fight and I think a lot more of us are strong enough too. Buck up, people. Let's not fall away just yet.

Even if (when?) Bush gets another term, make sure our voices are heard.

I woke up this morning with a real sense of foreboding - I couldn't believe the country had collectively decided to re-elect Bush - but it seems that is exactly what has happened. I have to admit, that there was a fleeting moment in the booth that I almost voted for him too - not because I support anything he has ever done - but simply because Kerry would have been stuck with trying to clean up this un-godly mess he is making of our county, our world, our planet and in the end, would have taken the blame.

In the Buddhist faith, suffering is a natural part of life along with the inevitability of change. Our country is changing - we must accept that; I only hope the suffering is not too prolonged.

I hope your poop wasnt riding on this election!

I was (tentatively, non-commitally) talking about the gay marriage bans with a large, grimy cab driver, when he just summed it right up:

"What the fuck do I care if a couple of fuckin' fags wanna get married?"

Exactly, sir, exactly.

wealhtheow,

What's wrong with having a judge who stands up for the rights of women? Even if they are preborn?

i'm scared. really and truly scared

Kano,

Three words:
Sean Hannity Weblog.

Go there and give us a break from your righteous indignation.

I love reading Dooce and I love that we live in a country where we can publicly disagree on politics, religion, etc. What I can't stand is when people who claim to be so 'open minded' (i.e. liberals) are so close minded when it comes to accepting and respecting those that don't agree with everything they believe.

Trust me when I say that I am not a far right conservative...I am simply a rational, respectful American that believes we all have a right to believe what we want to believe, vote how we want to vote, and ACCEPT the outcome of an election....because that is what democracy is all about.

Kerry needs to concede already--I live in Ohio and I can tell you that with Bush's lead of 135,000 votes and only 140,000 provisional votes remaining (which typically only yields less than 50% legitimate votes) it is NOT mathematically possible for Kerry to win this state.

Let's not even get to the discussion that there was a $4 million difference with Bush winning the popular vote for all of the U.S. Facts are facts here--while you may not agree with the outcome you must concede that Americans have voted and this is where the majority lies and you must respect that.

(Photo of clothing label should be right here)

"This is a clothing label from a small American company that sells their product in the US, France & Canada.

The inside label carries instructions on washing and caring for the bags. Because the bags are sold in France & Canada, the instructions are also printed in French. The French version, however, contains an additional phrase: "NOUS SOMMES DESOLES QUE NOTRE PRESIDENT SOIT UN IDIOT. NOUS N'AVONS PAS VOTE POUR LUI."

Here's the translation of the French part of the label.

Wash with warm water.
Use mild soap.
Dry flat.
Do not use bleach.
Do not dry in the dryer.
Do not iron.
We are sorry that Our President is an idiot.
We did not vote for him."

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_anti_bush_label.htm

Camille (#109)
I think that's about the most intelligent thing I've read on this site. Good for you.

Yes, let's pull together. Our voices will be heard in the Senate and House. Find sites on the internet. Get involved. Stand up for what you believe in. You can still make a difference. Write your local officials with your opinion. You will be heard.

Just because Bush is in office again, doesn't mean we are going to hell in a handbasket. Especially if we don't let ourselves.

Just today someone forwarded me an email asking me to sign a petition for a new breast cancer law. This is how we'll do it. Grass roots style.

I, for one, am very glad that this ban passed in all 11 states. Maybe this country is salvagable afterall?

"What I can’t stand is when people who claim to be so ‘open minded’ (i.e. liberals) are so close minded when it comes to accepting and respecting those that don’t agree with everything they believe."

I think that is part of the reason that Bush has won the election so handily. People are sick of the liberal elite telling them what they should think.

I for one will not miss one person who thinks Canada or UK is a better country than the US. I say good bye, and good riddance.

p.s. when the terrorists start attacking the UK and Canada, can we stop defending you? I hope so.

Can I just say, I'll be sooo glad when all this is over and we can get back to talking about cute babies and poop.....or was it babies and cute poop? Nah, couldn't be.
Anyway, please, please, please dear God in Heaven, let this political nightmare be over soon!

LadyBug

KIM IN texas " I won’t pay more in taxes (which I think I SHOULD if I make more money!) so I’ll be thinking about what worthy charities will get that money I’ll be keeping because of a screwed up taxation system that isn’t at all equal."

STANDING OVATION. WELL DONE.

As for moving to another country, its nice to talk about, but think about the "blue votes" that you will forfeit at the next election.

First time poster. I love dooce.com by the way and I just adore Leta!

I'm Canadian and I'm scared. We have to back the US if not we might be bombed by the US for some crazy reason. It makes no sense. I don't what is going on with people. Yes, you have the right to choose but if people are making bad decisions then someone should step in. It's no wonder the US gets attacked. There is a president who is fighting his Daddy's war and who is sending out people from his own country to be beheaded and millions and millions of people are supporting him. Isn't that what Sadam was doing?

God help us all, not just the US but Canada too because we all live in America.

it's over. bush won (thankfully). but we give kerry credit for conceding and not dragging it out.

please, no talk of not really winning or any of that crap. bush won by the greatest majority of popular vote. ever.

i for one am going to start working to make this country more moderate.

KIM IN texas ” I won’t pay more in taxes (which I think I SHOULD if I make more money!) so I’ll be thinking about what worthy charities will get that money I’ll be keeping because of a screwed up taxation system that isn’t at all equal.”

What's equal about paying more than your fair share? I applaud you, too. I wouldn't be able to if the government took it away from you and you couldn't choose to give it to the causes you cherish. Would you rather the government chose for you?

Did Kerry concede?

All of you that are "so depressed" and "vomitting" and think a fellow human being would make "good filler" for your concrete. Open your eyes - the *majority* of this country knows the definition of marriage.

My heart aches for those African-Americans that suffered such great hardships in this country's past. What an insult it is to them to compare the "plight" of the selfish homosexual community to what these men and women went through because of RACE.

Go ahead and make good on your threats and please, please head on up to Canada.

What a fabulous idea...let's put discrimination into the constitution!

I think I'm gonna be sick...

Just heard Kerry is conceding..

I am so.. SO sorry.

Jacob, I'm with you. How DARE those "selfish" homosexuals want the same rights that heterosexual couples have. Who do they think they are? Humans? Why should they have equal rights?

(Please read the sarcasm in this comment.)

(Also in Edmonton)Oh and I agree with Springs note to gays moving to Canada. Alberta is a bad province to come to.

Please Please PLEASE move!

From Barak Obama's speech at the Democratic Convention
"If there’s a child on the south side of Chicago who can’t read, that matters to me, even if it’s not my child. If there’s a senior citizen somewhere who can’t pay for her prescription and has to choose between medicine and the
rent, that makes my life poorer, even if it’s not my grandmother. If there’s an Arab American
family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens my civil
liberties. It’s that fundamental belief—I am my brother’s keeper, I am my sisters’keeper—that makes this country work. It’s what allows us to pursue our individual dreams, yet still come together as a single American family. “E pluribus unum.” Out of many, one.
Yet even as we speak, there are those who are preparing to divide us, the spin masters and negative ad peddlers who embrace the politics of anything goes. Well, I say to them tonight, there’s not a liberal America and a conservative America—there’s the United States of America. There’s not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there’s the United States of America. The pundits like to slice-and-dice our country
into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for Democrats. But I’ve got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the Blue States, and we don’t like federal agents poking around our libraries in the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America."

There is hope for the future, and sure it might take more work than we'd like, or be harder than we'd prefer, but it's time to suck it up and perservere. Get over it. Get on with it.

"p.s. when the terrorists start attacking the UK and Canada, can we stop defending you? I hope so."

My God - is there any limit to American ignorance? Just a small reminder for the historically challenged (IOW the majority of the Republican base): the IRA (a terrorist group if there ever was one, and one with widespread support in the US to boot) has attacked the UK repeatedly for decades. The French too have had their share of attacks, by Muslim fundamentalists from North Africa. Problem is, that took place around the time the US still was busy supporting the Muslim fundamentalists in Afghanistan. Protection my ***!

jacob, people like you are what's wrong with america. not consenting couples wishing to openly declare their eternal love.

fred phelps is opening a bottle of shandy and a bag of pork rinds under his slimy rock as we speak.

go join him.

HRT said at 09:29AM, 11.03.2004:
” I do not believe that God wants us to judge others so I don’t.”
That’s one of the most misquoted verses in the bible. Christian’s aren’t the ones who invented the notion that homosexuality is bad. God did. Look it up.

(( I looked it up. I've read it many times actually. There are a great deal of things in the Bible I don't agree with that are out of date or questionable. I also stated "God didn't want that", the Bible was not written by God, it was written by men with an agenda to cause mass hysteria )))

Thank you for your sincere compliment, Tim

Seeing as how not only does the president (again) think I'm wrong and don't deserve rights (including laws protecting me against hate crimes, because, apparently it's okay to hate me, hurt me & kill me because I'm gay), but i see now that many of the Amercian people believe the same.

This isn't the America I've always loved. This isn't my country.

I need out.

From my sis:
"I talked to dad this morning, and asked him if he thought it might have felt this way in Germany in
1936. I was kind of joking, expecting him to be like,
"Get real!" You know what he said instead? "Well there are definitely similarities, but it's a lot more like Iran, 1979."
Wow, dad, don't try to make me feel better or anything.
He went on to say, "We are descending into a fundamentalist darkness." He also said, "Plato said that there are times that the only thing you can do is
shelter behind a wall, pray, and keep your hands clean." "
And from me: I am behind that wall right now and plan to keep my hands clean for the next four years. I will also be fervently praying for the lives of my sons, the lives of my friends that have been shipped to Iraq, the lives of innocents everywhere and for the fate of the world as we know it.

What have we done? Have american's gone mad? Hand me my prozac please.

I know it's already been said-- but we are so fucked. I just checked CNN-- a white house aid said Kerry called to concede to monkey-face... but Bush gave him more time. How swell. DON'T GIVE UP, KERRY! You're our only hope. Please... Ohio... please. I can't believe that George got the popular vote. Who is voting for this person? I'm sort of incoherent. But I'm so upset.

I'm really really sorry to hear about your president and this bill being past...you're all welcome up here!
Love your Canadian Friend,
Karen

Hey you know, you can believe whatever you want. Just don't force your beliefs on me. Oh wait, I'm sorry that's your line.

Why must I be forced to accept that homosexual behavior is okay? Why must I be forced to grant special privileges to people simply because they have a particular sexual persuation.

You know what, I'm never going to convince you otherwise, and you're never going to convince me otherwise. So lets just drop it.

I apologize, what I said was over the line. I'm just tired of fighting with my friends over theorhetorical issues.

I am sitting here sadly reading the comments while the local radio station is playing "Bushisms". Just not funny this morning.
The general mood up here in BC Canada is one of disbelief. WTF?!

I'm in Canada too... and honestly? there's not that much room up here. Plus, it's not that much BETTER up here. So come if you want, but don't expect utopia.

This US needs to be like the rest of the world thing needs to chill a bit.

The last thing we need to do is try and be like ultra-xenophobic European countries like France or Germany. Should we be more like the quazi Democracy of Russia? or more like the very open minded middle east? Maybe we need to be more like China? no no, i think we should take a cue from the Sudan... we could learn a bit about genocide.

I'm not saying we can't still learn a thing or two, but our vulnerability stems in part from our desire to maintain the freedoms that we cherish. Countries like France often impose their beliefs over personal freedoms in order to maintain a sense of safety. That is the insular point of view that leads to people fearing Muslims, or people who appear to be Muslim.

It's not like we invented ignorance... I don't think we want more of that than we already have.
-g1

". . . the new underscored wording will be added for the P-R-O-P-S-E-D new law."

Don't know if anyone else caught this, skimming your comments is daunting, Dooce!

Anyway, was just hoping that mispelling nullified SOMEthing about all this.

I'm sad and angry all at the same time. The thing that makes me most upset is that I want people from other nations to know that not all Americans love Bush and his policies.

We are in a real struggle in this country against people who truly believe that God is on their side. I just want to make sure that we don't all splinter off and start arguing about what Kerry did wrong. What we need to do is band together and make sure we give Bush hell the next 4 years, especially because he'll have a bigger majority in the Senate. We need to get involved, read the news, talk to our friends, write letters to our Representatives and Senators, and be activists for the causes we believe in. I'm just scared that people will give Bush a free ride this term, and I'm determined not to let that happen.

On a lighter note- I have this plan to open up a commune full of progressive liberals- anyone want to join? We will totally have health insurance, gay marriage and all the Doritos you could want.

It's interesting to see what people get the most worked up about on this site...

Poop and Politics

"C’mon people—it’s one thing to be upset (even VERY UPSET) but let’s not be so ridiculously dramatic."

Kind of hard when you're the one at stake. Easier to say when you're not.

And thanks, but I AM involved. I've raised money for the HRC to fight for my rights. I am VERY active in the gay rights department. That is exactly why I am upset. You know nothing about what I do, and yet you seemed to think you had a right to assume I do nothing.

I know very well the people who have risked their lives to live here, as I live in Miami, where I am a huge minority (and not because I'm gay). I see and talk to them every day. I know many of them who are just as upset.

"hysteria and dramatics."

Being passionate about something is being hysterical and dramatic? Wow, I need to calm down, don't I? I mean, that's up there with burning bridges and breaking into stores to loot!

I have every right to state my side as you do.

"I’m sad and angry all at the same time. The thing that makes me most upset is that I want people from other nations to know that not all Americans love Bush and his policies."

We know. From what we hear, I'm wondering who the hell did vote for Bush? The Democrat voters seem to have been much more vocal this year. Maybe cos they have nothing to be ashamed of...

I love how "wow" spelled "mother's".

You are brilliant.

kimmie (which is what I normally go by BTW!)

I'm in Dallas and I'm reporting to you that Dallas County has its first female, first hispanic, and first homosexual sheriff! This after several years of misbehaviour by the Republican white male sheriff and grant fund misappropriation by the temporary Republican white male who took his place and ran for election.

No Kimmie, the hysteria and drama come not with passion, but with statements like:

"apparently it’s okay to hate me, hurt me & kill me because I’m gay"

Since when did a law forbidding gay marriage (or one distinguishing hate crimes from other crimes) say it was okay to hurt or kill? As far as hate goes, anybody can hate anybody for any reason. It's the hurting and killing that's not okay.

Anyway, those are the kinds of statements that are overstated, sensationalistic, dramatic, and hysterical.

Ahem.

Stories of Chuck and sockless babies and tales of recovering from depression and funny asides and lovely photography and sharp commentary regarding humanity and daily life... let's have some more of that, please. That's why I come to see Heather B. Armstrong every day!

Enough, please, with the politics. Please?

No one should force their beliefs on anyone. period.

If you think gays are evil and shouldn't get "special" privileges that's your opinion. Fine. However laws are not meant to be used to dictate what is a moral issue. I feel the same way about abortion, drinking, smoking, and a wide variety of moral and religious issues. No one has to accept that homosexual behavior is okay (even though I personally disagree with you); however using the law to impose a particular religious belief is also wrong. Gay marriage proponents are not trying to pass a law saying that you need to do XY or Z-which is part of the legal difference.

Also, keep in mind that while God is always right and never makes mistakes, that man in falliable. The Bible, while inspired by God, was written by man. As a document, it has been changed several times through the years. Books have been taken out by kings that disagreed, passages have been re-written by monks that disagreed with certain previous statements. Human beings, being flawed, constantly mess up the messages they get from God.

If you disagree with me, that's fine. We all still love poop and at the end of the day, that's what matters to me. :)

Gods, am I ever glad I live in Canada. At least here, when nobody likes our leader, there's a minority government that actually has to work for the bills they try to pass.

ANNE: Thank you, thank you, thank you, and AMEN!

Although poop and politics are veeery similar, the heated political debates aren't nearly as much fun as the poop discussions!

Let's get back to basics...babies and bowel movements (or lack thereof). Anyone else with me?

I am righteously indignant at the job President Bush has done. The "PATRIOT" act, the war in Iraq, the economy... *shudders*. The only good thing to come out of this election is the potential for strict constructionist Supreme Court Justices. Lets face it, with Roe v. Wade the Supreme Court paved the way for 8 million babies to be killed by their mothers. Our laws against murder don't prevent murder entirely, but I'm sure glad that we have those laws. People have a right to choose abortion, but they also have a right to choose murder; there should be similar consequences for each choice.

To personalize the abortion issue, what if dooce had decided that it wasn't the right time to have a kid, and deprived us of the cuteness attack that is Leta? Over 8 million babies as cute as Leta have been killed. Think about it.

Future appointments to the Supreme Court are what we should all be concerned about now...this is where things could get really, really ugly. As if we needed something else to be concerned about. I still can't believe that monkey faced motherfucker was reelected.

Yeah, here in Mississippi like 88% voted for the ban on gay marriage. It's not a huge surprise, but it's sad. Why do so many people object to two people sharing their lives and the rights of marriage? I don't get it.

I'm glad the eleciton is over though. I think the country has spoken pretty clearly. I'm another middle of the road gal who voted for Bush. A lot of the comments above are a prime example of why I did.

The rabid extremism that liberals have adopted scares a lot of people.

Statements like, "Obviously there are too many ignorant, gun-wielding Americans running around with voter registration cards. GO TO FRANCE!", and "again, i have underestimated the stupidity of the american people.", are just really bizarre to me. I want nothing to do with that attitude.

Weren't we all told that Afghanistan (et al) was/is a threat becuase it's run by a fundamentalist-religous government? Oh, but this is acceptable becuase it's good, white Christan fundamentalism...not that scary brown jibberish kind?

I'm just asking is all.

May "The LORD bless you
and keep you; the LORD make his face shine upon you
and be gracious to you;
the LORD turn his face toward you
and give you peace."

Read nothing more into this than a sincere blessing.

The end.

Kathleen
So why don't we wait & see if they're abused & unwanted & then kill them? I don't see the difference.

So it's ok to kill them once they're older and can feel the pain? But not when they're a cluster of developing cells?

Okie-doke.

Brooke and anyone else who wants to move to Canada: we'd love to have you. My hubby and I have a spare room and two couches. Hope you don't mind kitties.

I feel sick and despondent. My wife won't let me self-immolate on the White House lawn, not that I would actually do that. What would that accomplish, anyway? It would just give some arrogant isolationist the pleasure of saying, "see, another leftie sore loser." Today, fear wins. Fear and dumbness. Tomorrow I wipe away the tears and carry on as best I can. Canada does sound good, but barring that, at least I can take comfort knowing that only slightly fewer than half of my countrymen share more humanistic priorities (hopefully).

I've never been so happy to live in Massachusetts, where our Republican poster boy Mitt Romney got totally spanked when none of the republican minions he supported won in the state races. Equal rights, at least at the state level, looks more promising in the Baystate.

I'll be heading over to Fanuil Hall to watch the concession speech to pour salt in the wound.

Kathleen said at 10:23AM, 11.03.2004:
So it’s ok to kill them once they’re older and can feel the pain? But not when they’re a cluster of developing cells?

Okie-doke.

--

Not if you're that cluster of developing cells. A good video for you to watch is "Silent Scream".

And, yes, I do help support the unwanted and abused.

WOW --

I'd say if they're aborted, they're probably unwanted. Just a thought.

I have a lot to say, but nothing will come out. I'm afraid, really afraid.

>>>People have a right to choose abortion, but they also have a right to choose murder; there should be similar consequences for each choice.<<<

To Different Patrick...
Are you saying what I think you're saying?

I knew Bush was going to take the good ole state of Virginia but I still tried. Who can blame me? Even if I did almost get kicked out of the polls for threatening to punch the guy who accused me of making an unnecessary statement 'cause I was reading Animal Farm while I waited in line. Costa Rica looks nice all year around....

I like cheese. Cheddar is my preferred choice; although sometimes I like Gouda.

Cheddar is awesome, so is Pepper Jack.

As if. John Kerry is MY boyfriend, you blonde Californicated wench. Paws off!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow:

Umm... duh?

My wife is in tears this morning. I would be too if I had harbored any real hope. But we're riding (or drowning under) the crest of a conservative tidal wave that was started in 1980 by Ronnie.
The only way I can get through today and the next four years is to take the larger perspective. The pendulum will swing back toward humanity and decency and intelligence again. And in the meantime, we've got letters to write, places to volunteer for, news to monitor, and generally many miles to go before we sleep.

Ok I will lay off and let you drwon in your sorrow for a day. Hopefully in four years you will all have a better attitude. You may want to include a banner stating that this site is for Democrats only.

We can't believe that Bush has been voted in.

"President Bush pulled out of the Kyoto Protocol in 2001, arguing that US business interests would be harmed by the treaty. The United States is responsible for a quarter of the world's carbon dioxide emissions (the principle greenhouse gas), yet it only has around four per cent of the world's population."

Four more years for the rest of the world, too.

Thanks to all those who voted for Kerry.

Sorry for bringing up abortion, dooce. I stayed up too late last night.

cs, what I meant by saying that everybody has a right to murder and a right to abortion and the consequences should be the same, I meant that both those who have abortions (i.e., commit murder) and those who... commit murder should be locked up and rehabilitated. Of course I'm not placing much faith in the rehabilitation our prison system engenders.

That being said, having a whackjob like Bush in charge of this country again scares the poop right out of me.

Your previous point seems to center on pain as being the fundamental litmus of personal existence. A single nerve can feel pain but I would not argue that it is (in itself) a being.

In your second argument ability to survive is the gauge at which existence is metered. The problem with this is that the moment of becoming a being is so extraordinarily difficult to quantify. And survival is a thin argument fraught with it’s own difficulties the fetus would most likely survive without interference. Does inability to survive outside of water make a fish any less alive?

I’m not trying to be black and white about it, I just think the normal rhetorical arguments are circular.

Rights extend to those who exist.
When does one exist?
Who decides when existence happens?

Should Lacy Peterson’s murderer not be tried for double homicide because the fetus could not have survived outside of the womb? What if her intention was to get an abortion?

Posing questions.

Different Patrick said ... "To personalize the abortion issue, what if dooce had decided that it wasn’t the right time to have a kid, and deprived us of the cuteness attack that is Leta? Over 8 million babies as cute as Leta have been killed. Think about it."

What a low blow!! To use Leta as your little example.

But to turn it another way, when I was 18 I was sexually assaulted, became pregnant and got an abortion. Had I not got that abortion, I probably would not have ended up marrying the man I did (because I wouldn't have been able to have the internship where I met him) and having two beautiful babies with him, therefore depriving the world of those two children. Do you want to go on all day with these hypotheticals? We could ...

I feel so sick this morning thinking that we lost this election because of the "values" voters like different patrick. And it just enrages me that republicans are all for less government involvement in the lives of its citizens, unless it has to do with who you want to have sex with or what you want to do with your own body.

I think a big "ugh" pretty much sums it up.

Fli:

Perhaps you and I could take this to email if you wish to keep debating it. I'm not going to keep going around on it here.

However, I do have one flaw to point out in your reasoning. A fish was never meant to live outside of water. If you want to apply that same logic to a fetus, then you'd be saying a fetus was never meant to live outside a uterus.

I am just so sad this morning. I have a gay friend who is in utter fear of what will come of his rights. No person should be in fear of their rights as an American. It goes against everything we stand for as a country. I just have a horrible gut feeling that we are in for a horrible 4 years.

WOW! I am aghast at the amount of arguing going back and forth. I cannot believe people are actually willing to 'get out' of the US because of this. Well, we're free to do that here so 'see ya later'...it's not like in some other lands where if a person doesn't swear allegiance to their leader they will be killed. The US won't kill a person for leaving or even for thinking about leaving, which is all it will amount to...

IMO, I don't believe anyone would emigrate because of an election. If there is argument from anyone that said they would leave, then to that I say, 'I double-dog dare you.' I bet there is someone in the world that would LOVE to take a US emigrants place. So let them have it, please.

I'm sorry Bush won, I'm sorry gays-can't be married, I'm sorry that Schmucker is a Fucker...(sorry, had to lighten my own mood...)

I am not, however, sorry I live in the United States where I can vote for this stuff. I'm not ashamed I've given birth to children or am in a heterosexual relationship (some of the comments make me feel like I should be....) What makes me ashamed is that people are willing to denounce they're citizenship on a forum just because this election didn't end right. Maybe the next election will be better, who knows. But I'll still be living in the US and will still have my right to vote when that day comes. At least we can speak our minds here and I say to that, GOD BLESS AMERICA!

Re: Roe vs Wade

And if we recind the laws forbidding murder we will still have murders happening in dark and dirty alleys.

the dow is up because brokerage firms are telling their customers to buy stocks, namely pharmaceutical --

"We believe that the drug group, on the whole, will benefit from a Bush victory"

did you know: Bush is FOR
"...Medicare Drug Benefit in current form, which prohibits government interference on drug price negotiation..."

ok, so tell me which of the 51% who voted for Bush WON'T be affected by this... good luck to the aging Americans who voted Red.

Weeping today over the fact that my partner and I are planning to start a family in the next couple of years; a family which may have so few legal protections as to cause us to question the idea.

We went to college, we go to church every Sunday, we pay our taxes (although, like Heather, I have a need to challenge the authority of the government in all matters automotive), we're planning for retirement, we give to charity, we respect our neighbors and try to make our community a better place to be a human being.At the tender age of 30, I'd say we're pretty much the American ideal.

The wave of hate and fear I feel directed at us is overwhelming. I just want to invite the fearful folks over for dinner so that they can see that we're not so different from them.

Dooce -

You should start up a forum for the sort of malarky happening here in your comments section today - and charge a small yearly fee to belong. That way we can bicker with one another and show each other how passionate and intelligent and amazing we all are and sigh and pout and trade witticisms and raise Cain... and you can make a little money... and we can go back to enjoying your photography without all the vitriol!

What a fabulous idea.

Thank you.

Canadian said at 11:05AM, 11.03.2004:
The problem with overturning Roe Vs Wade is that abortion will STILL HAPPEN. It will happen in dark and dirty alley’s. Of course, the people of Africa are also better off with four more years of aid cuts due to the sinners who perform abortions.

wow said at 11:09AM, 11.03.2004:
Re: Roe vs Wade

And if we recind the laws forbidding murder we will still have murders happening in dark and dirty alleys.

(sorry chris, hope that helps)

I'm afraid that by the end of the next four years it will be illegal to be gay, to have an abortion, to have sex outside your bedroom, to go without underwear (not to mention SOCKS!), to have nudity in art, not to go to church every sunday, and we'll be at war with everyone in the world who has skin darker than mine and names that bush can't pronounce.

#271 = Things are not right because they would be done anyway.

I think that argument bothers people because it equivocates a murder in the street to an abortion, which is preciely what they don't believe.

hmmm.

I'm thinking the former congressman, Chuckles, needs to run again. He brought so much furry happiness!

wow. Here's what I'm getting at:

You're equating something that is legal to something that is illegal and claiming the the reversal of either results in the same thing. Whereas, if murder laws were in fact repealed, murder wouldn't happen in back alleys. It'd happen on front porches.

Sorry. It's semantics. And I'm being too picky.

So this came out when all of the Dr. Laura crap was going on a few years ago, but I think it proves a valid point about homosexuality and the Bible.

Here you go...

"Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord-Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness-Lev.15:19-24. The problem is,how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take
offense.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality.

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does vision have to be
20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed,including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at private family affair like we do with people who sleep
with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan

chris

gotcha

stayed up all night, what can I say

I'm sorry but...what on earth is wrong with you people? The hate is crunchy. The rest of the world’s opinion matters because many of them want to bomb you. Don't you want to know why? They don't hate you because you are 'free'. That is insane. They hate you for your intrusive foreign policies and crazy ass need to go to war without the UN's approval. Go ahead and attack me.
Shrug.

287 - the point being that where something happens does or does not have any bearing on whether or not that action is right?

Many compelling arguments could be made in either direction. Murder. Pooping. Breast Feeding. Etc.

At any rate if we are going to get serious about this legalizing murder thing we should come up with some nice clean euphemisms. That way the voting public can have a more sanitary view of it. The deceased can be "the irrelevant"... suggestions.

No one can accuse me of being anti-semantic

(Cue rim shot)

Get Murder out of the back alleys and onto the front porches in 2008!

http://thestickingpoint.typepad.com/the_sticking_point/2004/11/i_must_no...

Uh and Chris-

I get what you're saying. And I feel the same way - mostly. But I also feel the way I posted earlier, too.

The thing that sent me over the edge was the thought of Italians having a vote in our election. I totally don't understand that thought. Explanation?