Oh, Lordy
When Jon and I first started dating we made each other promise that 1) we'd never go back to the Mormon church and 2) we'd never live in Utah again. It's safe to say that if you don't do one of these things, you won't likely do the other one. Mormons are Utah. Utah is Mormons.
Three months into this marriage and we're already breaking one of our solemn promises: Jon and I are moving back to Utah.
The Lord can't be happy with us.
So, Lord, I present to you the following reasons why Jon and Heather need to move back to Utah:
- Heather wants to have a baby and if there ever were a place on earth where people know how to have babies that place would be colonized by Mormons.
- Chuck needs a backyard and the average price of a backyard in Los Angeles is $480,000.
- Jon and I are down to our last couple dollars and a gallon of milk in Utah costs less than a couple dollars.
- My mother, the Avon World Sales Leader, lives in Utah and can give us free shampoo.
- They have weather in Utah.
- My sister's hair lives in Utah.
We're not sure exactly when this move will take place, only that it has to take place within the next 30 to 60 days. Which means I get 30 to 60 days to squeeze every last ounce of sin from the luscious limbs of Los Angeles.
First on our to-do list is renting a U-haul and stocking it to the ceiling with coffee and shlitz malt liquor.
Second, you need to talk me out of this.
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Heather talks about public tantrums (from kids) on today's Momversation.
- Bedtime, Leta lingering defiantly in the hallway. Jon: "If you want fart stories, you better get in bed RIGHT NOW."
- RIP Louis Mortimer Armstrong: http://bit.ly/1R4tv6
- Hugs and kisses to you, too! RT: @Monkey_Tree: @dooce he probably committed suicide because he was tired of LISTENING TO YOU WHINE.
1. Mal said:
Can't say that I'm the best person for "talking out" but if you need someone on the other side to do apartment/house hunting for you, I can try to be of service. Anything I can do?
2. poop on a stick said:
don't please don't.......
my friend moved there and now he is a card carrying member of AA...
he has been brainwashed...
please please please don't.....
3. Shoefly said:
Dooce, note this:
Title 76, Chapter 5 of the Utah State Code says that Oral sex is illegal.
Have you really weighed the consequences here?
4. stace said:
spent a week in utah last spring (capital?/capitol? reef national park? is that the name of it?). it is the most beautiful place i've ever seen! had to drive a couple hours for a starbucks, however. northern utah seemed pretty civilized from what i saw. best of both worlds!
5. eggbert said:
i just saw bowling for columbine, and i too am moving from los angeles, taking poor ingrid with me. we'll probably end up in vancouver, where there is snowboarding in the winter and wonderful concrete skateparks in the summer, and i can fly home to see mom n pop back here in hell.
6. dooce said:
oral sex may be illegal, but the Utah State Code says nothing about bukkake.
7. Bono said:
Shlitz Malt Liquor is indeed, all that you can't leave behind.
8. beezlebubba said:
You gotta do what you gotta do. Hell-Ay ain't no place for a baby or the cutest of dogs. And they have snow there, you're right. And as for the dry counties, isn't that what the internet is for? Ordering booze and coffee?
9. se said:
My husband grew up in SLC as a non-Mormon, his brother converted to marry a "girl" in a temple wedding, we go back to visit and we've driven through Utah many times on our way to other places. Utah is a scary, hive-minded place in a lot of ways. I think it would be incredibly hard to resist the church's influence living there. I think people tend to either be swayed by the church or reactionary to it--either way it's influencing you. If you do move, at least you'll still have Disney Land--what with the church's efforts to make life seem like Disney Land. "Everybody smile now. Life is all happiness and light." "Let's make sure everything is *enlightening*!" You'll still have the castle-thingy like Disney Land--ala The Temple. And you'll still have Tinkerbell--the mormon version, Moroni. Sincerely, a Complete Stranger Saying Don't Move.
10. slackjaw said:
LA or Utah? These are the choices?
I'm not sure I could lift my head off the pillow in the morning if that were the case...
Does Utah really need more babies?
11. Naaman said:
That sucks! Although, if there ever was something I missed now that I'm living in California, it's seasonal changes!
12. se said:
Now I can't remember if the chorus I heard in my English classes was for enlightening or uplifting. As in, "Why are we reading _The Grapes of Wrath_, _All Quiet on the Western Front_, _A Separate Peace_, etc.? Why don't we read something enlightening/uplifting?" I'm thinking it must be "uplifting". Which ever, just make sure you smile.
13. Dave Thomas said:
Good hell, if I had to worry about succumbing completely to foreign influences wherever I went, I would never leave the house. Actually, I wouldn't go home, either. We have ants. Talk about hive-mindedness.
14. paula said:
If there's ONE thing I've learned from simply observing my friends' procreation efforts, is that there is nothing quite like the built-in baby-sitting aspect of having family close by. No one will ever love your baby more. Although, speaking for myself only, I do tend to worry about the brainwashing efforts my family might initiate toward converting our child into a bible-owning Catholic, but still...free baby-sitting! Also, if it doesn't work out, you can always move back before the child is old enough to be assimilated. :-)
15. April said:
This, now that I'm moving north to Huntington Beach?! I won't have any cool blogger neighbors!
16. se said:
Dave Thomas
You're funny. I'm talking about a pretty monochromatic, far-reaching influence. Want to learn about influence, spend a chunk of time in Utah. I wouldn't worry about the ants back home, unless they vote, teach your children, carry a gun, decide who gets hired, etc.
17. yesno0001 said:
The Utah state dance is the Square Dance. In California, it's the West Coast Swing.
Case closed.
18. scared of mullets said:
hmmm... haven't been to Northern Utah, but went through Southern Utah, and must say it was a hotbed of mullet activity, as well as a haven for those with dubious showering habits... Have you considered moving elsewhere in California? A suburb perhaps, or Nothern California?
19. ex southern babtist said:
Shoefly has a point...do you really want to limit yourselves to only traditional methods?
20. chris said:
i love utah. where else can you get a 2 bedroom apartment for 425 dollars a month? besides the summer i think the weather is really nice. Totally Awesome ComputersÆ commercials are always entertaining. Trax is an clean, cheap way to get downtown. I get excited when i go to utah just so i can eat at some of the restaurants. Evergreen cafe, Bangkok Thai, Chuck O' Rama, Tucci's, Oasis... there's some more but i can't think of them all right now. Anyways, don't be such a pessimist.
21. Ariel said:
While this saddens me on a purely selfish "all-about-me" level (I move to LA...and then you two move away!), I absolutely understand the cost efficiency of Utah, and the pragmatism of free childcare and familial support. I have every intention of being back on Bainbridge Island, WA, when I pop my little wiggler out. Whenever that may be. (And please do not tell my parents that we discussed this -- they would get too excited.)
22. how did you know my name was Dirty? said:
Say it isn't so!!
I swore when I turned 18 that I would move away from all that is hick (St. Mary's County, MD) and never look back. Five years later I found myself moving back east.
My compromise? Live in an urban area and never, I mean n-e-v-e-r again live within an hour's drive of what I lovingly call "The Fah-ma-lee".
23. helenjane said:
I will heretofore submit a solemn request for you to move to Portland, Oregon, where we are moving.
I promise, the futurehusband and I will not hardly be creepy at all, hardly.
Boozy scrabble nights.
Crashing on our floor "till you find a place."
We wouldn't hardly notice your procreatin' at all...
24. ryan said:
anywhere, anywhere... anywhere but Utah...
25. LK said:
you're right, ms. dooce, LA is no place to raise a kid... but where else are you gonna have movie stars come into your kitchen to take scavenger hunt pictures and where else are you gonna see them make out in front of a crowded elevator? :D
ahh well.
26. Scotty The Body said:
I actually think Salt Lake City is a fine town (I'm originally from Colorado). I try to convince my wife that we could sell our house in Atlanta, buy a nice bungalow in SLC and get good jobs with nice weather and outdoor activities and clean air and all that. Mormon's may be a bit "boring," but, on the whole, they are nice, friendly, hard-working and common sense enabled. Except for that whole part about the angel on the Temple blowing his horn and having all the Mormons bring him their powdered milk. That's a little strange.
27. Zan said:
Well, at least there's good skiing in Utah (not much skiing in LA proper, I suppose).
28. Ex-liontamer said:
Dooce, I understand the need for an "achievable" lifestyle. That's why I live in Baltimore (Hey, Hon!), and not North Jersey (T'sup, dude!) I can dig that. As far as the Utah/Mormon tip, I can only speak on conjecture, not experience. Personally I would have a secret glee telling all my funny-underwear-havin' neighbors there is no magic man in the clouds and his (allegedly) only begotten son was a Buddhist. Tee-hee! I'm welling up with Atheistic contempt already! Somebody pour me a cuppa joe and light me a smoke... I'M GOING IN! Yeeee-haaa!
29. jess said:
ack, you can't actually be serious, can you? you don't want to go back to utah. you really really really don't.
find... a baby expert in california. they have to have at least one hiding somewhere.
oh well. i guess there's always shlitz malt liquor. i think i might even have some somewhere...
30. Wayne said:
Don't go to Utah because you'll have to deal with this:
(A direct quote from a woman interviewed on NPR's Morning Edition:)
"We're not illiterate. We're smart people. There's some mighty smart people that lives in the Utah."
God bless her, she's absolutely correct.
Then again, your sisterís hair has that incredible gravitational attraction....
31. Heather #2 said:
Every time I come visit and think I'm going to laugh, you always hit us up on the real tip. OK, have you thought about moving anywhere besides Utah? Here's a thought: Portland, OR. That's where I'm from, although I just moved to Pittsburgh. Portland is great, if you liked Cali, you'll probably love Portland. Smaller, conducive to family life, but still west coast - think java on every corner. See here and here. Just a thought. Plus, you could drive home anytime - it's far, but not that far.
32. Wayne said:
Don't go to Utah because you'll have to deal with this:
(A direct quote from a woman interviewed on NPR's Morning Edition)
"We're not illiterate. We're smart people. There's some mighty smart people that lives in the Utah."
God bless her, she's absolutely correct.
Then again, your sisterís hair has that incredible gravitational attraction....
33. the propagandist said:
NO!
Utah is encino without the glitz.
don't do it! the sacrifice of LA far outweighs the martyrdom of Utah.
34. Beerzie Boy said:
Never live in a state with politicians named Orrin. All of California is expensive, but you are living in the wrong California. Move to Northern California. Even Fresno or Sacramento has to be better than Utah.
35. Heather #2 said:
Ooh, HelenJane, I just read your post! I think we could talk her into that move, and I bet she'd love, say, 23rd or Hawthorne, don'tcha think? Ooh, or Sellwood. Yep, I think Sellwood might be just the spot for our girl, Dooce. Hey, HelenJane, where are you from in Portland?
36. pinky said:
Hi dooce. You may have to leave LA, but there are lots of cheap beautiful places with seasons and backyards AND coffee and beer. Like Wisconsin, Minnesota, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, and so many more. People have babies there, they just don't have them with their uncles, know what I mean? And there are fabulous cities, and you could be just a day's drive from your sister's hair and your mom's shampoo. You have always struck me as kind of a Minneapolis/St. Paul girl, and I mean that in the nicest possible way. Good luck, I mean it.
37. Deuce said:
dear, god. does this mean i get your parking space? whoo-hoo!
uh, i mean, please don't go. stay. but then utah is beautiful, so...
38. Dave Thomas said:
People. For once, think of yourselves.
How many more bizarre celeb brushings can we expect Dooce to have in LA? There are only so many elevators.
Utah, on the other hand, is dark, fertile soil. There will be stories. And they wonít make you think: "Hey, Giovani Ribisi is gross...Hm, I wonder what it's like to be Giovani Ribisi...". No, you can enjoy the Utah freak show with pure, untainted schadenfruedidity.
Run, Dooce. Run to the everlasting hills. And take lots of notes.
39. devil said:
I escape from utah for 3 years, I had to go to Alaska to get away from the utah vortex. i am back now I am in Park City the only place in Utah that you can drink beer in a public park. It is not bad here, any palace is better than LA. If you like the sunny weather find some place else. For gods sake please stay away from Provo, that place is evil.
40. kelley said:
Beerzie Boy, as a happy homeowner with two happy hounds frolicking in their very large backyard, this Sacramentan is offended. Come to Northern CA, Dooce, it's beautiful here. Easy drive to Utah. Though I understand the lure of family connections for those reproducing years, and you & the kids can always visit the Osmond studios on weekends. The dilemma.
41. edmund b said:
PLEASE DON'T DO IT, DOOCE! i understand why you are doing it, but just think of all the cool art-house flicks you'll be missing out on. don't don't don't do it. if you need to move somewhere full of jerk-offs where you can get more land for your money, move to valencia. it's not that bad. when things with the neighbors get really bad, you and the husband can sneak off to calarts and go skinny dipping in the pool. think about it!
42. Memphis Girrrl said:
Remember high school in memphis and how we were the mormon freaks, now your kids in utah will be the non-mormon freaks. definitely think twice. but hey, i remember buying a gallon of milk there with 160 pennies.
43. arnold said:
what's the diversity of ethnicity and culture in SLC like? more importantly, are there Starbucks there?
44. vianya said:
Seriously, Portland OR...I live there too. We have seasons and you can buy a house with a yard and the people here are laid back and there are only a few Mormons.
45. eggbert said:
wait a minute. wait a minute. i'm going to be selfish here, but if you move to utah, and you move to utah soon, then that will mean that soon we will have less-interesting dooce posts. it's like the time i was taking prozac. things were good, they were easy. no problemo, therefore no personality, so there. having said all that, a.d's have not kept you from posting interesting bits all this time, so maybe that theory sucks. like utah.
46. Jory said:
I never thought I'd go out on this limb but:
Oh, honestly. Utah isn't *that* bad. I moved back after 10 years elsewhere (Germany, Arizona, and California -- not mormon btw), and quite frankly its great. I don't think I could have said this 5 years ago, or even two years ago, but honestly, the Olympics worked wonders.
It was like the sheltered people of UT saw that there was this whole world out there, and shock of shocks, opened their arms willingly.
As far as cultural goulash goes; almost any art house flick you'll ever want to see is playing down in Salt Lake, we get tons and tons of *real* concerts, there's awesome bars and clubs, tons of museums, etc.
Besides that it's a huge, ballooning mecca of e-commerce and IT savvy companies, theres no shortage of jobs, the cost of living is low, and above all, it *is* a really great place to raise kids.
It's safe, its comfortable, there is no shortage of baby-sitters, and with that many Mormons in the neighborhood, you get a free weeks worth of meals when you move in garaunteed. Ot at least I did. I think you can triple that if you play the innactive member card.
But yeah, I'll go with Mal on this one, you need any help, give me a ring. Where would you be moving to, by the way?
47. The Inmate said:
The entire country is screwed up. I say you move out of the US altogether. That's what I did. Plenty of nicer places out here. Unless of course, you've managed to become dependent on the decadence of American society.
48. Alex said:
Ultimately, it's Dooce and Jon's decision (which I'm sure it wasn't an easy one)and if they must do it for the chillins, then they must.
I am considering moving from Chicago to Louisiana (where the husband is from) when the time comes to have some pipsqueaks. There's no way I'm raising a kid without a backyard! And a backyard in Chicago doesn't come cheap.
So I know that sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do...
49. \b{Kim} said:
Re: The Portland discussion- I live in Portland currently, and it seems like it might be a nice compromise. There *is* weather, but it's only kind of weather, which may lessen or prevent the sudden shock of under 60-degree winters. (Though I personally would wonder why you want distinct seasons- I'm a 80-degree-year-round-girl meself.) We rent, but I have a few friends who bought, and you can get decent property for less than LA prices (though Utah is probably cheaper). The best Portland argument I've heard recently is that Portland is a (small, admittedly) city with a big-town feel. I think it's because Portland, due to stellar city planning, has a lot of mixed-use neighborhoods-- you know, private residences, apartments, restaurants & shops-- all in one small area. It means you can walk (!!) to a coffee shop or the grocery store from your house. Or to the park, so Chuckles can go for a run with the other neighborhood dogs & chase squirrels.
Plus, there are a bunch of cool second-run & limited-release theaters in which you can purchase & consume beer & pizza while you watch movies (good if what you do for fun is watch movies, like me!). And, as others have pointed out, then you're close enough to family that you can go see 'em, but not so close that they show up unannounced at awkward moments (you know, before the "gotta-hide-it-from-the-parents" stuff is safely stashed).
50. Sarah B. said:
Heather, I have been to Utah -- SLC, in fact -- which perhaps somehow ups the odds that I might one day return to Utah, especially if you have a little liam. I like the idea of my Armstrongs being closer to me!
51. Jen said:
What about the stairs? Where are you going to excercise?
52. I love that Starck stuff at Target said:
Bahh. Dooce and Blurb want to take the next step. And LA is for: people to sow their wild oats from early-20s to mid-30s; people who work in "the business" [there's no business like it]; people who like living on a purely "surface" level.
And Portland, OR has too many goddamn hippies for anyone to stand.
53. Anne said:
Bring on the Postum and Freshca!
54. Cindi said:
I live in Utah and also was raised Mormon. Utah has changed and it's not so overrun these days by the whole church...although it may seem that way at times. I'm leaving Utah in 67 days for bigger and better. Perhaps you should rethink going to Utah and coming with me to raise your pups on the beach in Costa Rica!
55. CraigJ said:
Ok, so I get to reset reality here!! Go where your heart and pocketbook lead you, but LEAVE dooce.com somewhere we can find it!!
56. mule-rider said:
Oh sister- I understand your stated reasons- however, I have to stand with several others and point out that there are lots of other affordable, still desirable locales where you can have a fun life and still afford babies and a yard for Chuckles.
From your descriptions of your family interactions it does sound as though you'd have to expend a huge amount of energy just to continue being who you manifestly are in the face of a large amount of social pressure. My experience with Mormon culture is vicarious through friends and an ex- boyfriend, but all of them struggled hugely to keep their sense of integrity and self identity intact when their choices differed from the party line, as it were. The pressure to conform was like nothing I've ever seen- Catholic guilt does not even begin to approach it. Good luck, whatever you decide.
57. The Incredible Hulk said:
ARGH! Utah make Hulk angry! Dooce make critical mistake moving to Mormon-land! Make Hulk want to smash!
58. kane said:
I think you know in your heart that a move to Utah will mean that you will eventually be living a lifestyle which caused you to move from there in the first place. Before you know it, you will once again be Morman, and soon husband will have four other wives and you will be sacrificing chickens.
59. Me said:
We're thinking of doing the same. Moving to Utah with our stash of Olde English, getting sh*tfaced and bukkaking everyone in sight!
60. wanna get high said:
reasons la is better than utah.
-per capita the most beautiful looking people on the planet.
-vegas is closer
-better totally nude joints
-weed is easier to score
-u can be totally insane & fit right in
-dress code? what dress code
-home of the world champions la lakers
-shaq & ozzie resides here
-if u happen to get a divorce 1/2 of his is yours
-more murders occur here (drive by shootings got envogue here for christ sake)
-higher salaries & better jobs (u think u can get a personal assistant job in utah?)
-bukowski lived here
-it's la la land
-they sell crack on the streets
61. The Husband said:
What caused us to leave UT? .com jobs. Leaving the church is another matter altogether.
Salt Lake is 50/50 mo/nomo. Salt Lake has the beer/pizza movie thing. Salt Lake has cheap housing. Salt Lake has .com jobs. Salt Lake was where we did this.
The other thing is that the powder is about 30 minutes away. And not crap powder, either.
You people think we don't have spines? You think we are that weak? HA! Me and Chuck are laughing at you right now from atop the 16 palettes of Ketel One.
62. The Inmate said:
I wholeheartedly support Cindi's suggestion. Costa Rica is an excellent place to live. Cheap, tranquil and pretty well wired. Oh, and the beaches are fantastic. It's not a great place to be an inmate, but it sure beats LA for living.
63. julia said:
talk you out of it?
secret. underwear.
that is all.
64. Jonah said:
Ultimately, you will find that if you can be happy living somwhere you can be happy living anywhere. The bottom line is that you make your life happy, the place you live does not.
65. tara said:
I hear you, sister. The same reason I moved from LA back to the Bay Area (too expensive), and then why we finally made the move to leave the state altogether. We want all of the things you and Jon want, and we are so much closer to getting it now. It was a hard decision and a hard move (I left my family, he came to some family so I guess it could be worse), but ultimately it will be worth it for us.
And hey, look at all the Portland people here! I am now in Portland too, I cannot really say I totally miss CA (except for my family). This move was definitely worth it.
Also, Dooce - you will notice that the cost of taking a U-Haul out of CA is about 10x more than taking it in. Frustrating yes - the move was quite expensive for us (considering the whole reason to move was to save money, buy a house, and have kids!) but I think it will be good for you two (and Chuck). Good luck to you and may it be a smooth and easy transition.
66. Lynn said:
Oh wow. Does this mean you'll have 8 kids in 5 years? I'm sensing yes -- I know nary a Morm who's not been 'washed upon moving out there. Good luck, good luck.
Lemme pose this question, though -- if you weren't Mormons, and your family weren't (i.e. they didn't live there), where else would you choose to embark on your new adventure?
67. d said:
From reading your posts over a series of months, I think you would do just fine in Utah. I don't see you being assimilated like some weak-minded people. You know you aren't into that "thing" and you won't fall for it. As a whole, Mormon's are nice people. They are generally giving and kind. However, don't move to a small town in Utah. It seems small-town Mormon's are very protective of "their town" and seriously run out people they don't want there. Don't know if they do the same for non-Mormons, but I've heard of them doing it to multiple Mormon families. Which makes 0 sense to me, wouldn't you want more of "YOUR KIND" around not less? Anyway, I digress.. Utah, like someone mentioned, is not as bad as it used to be. The population in SLC is 50/50 like The Husband said, so it's not a majority like it once was. Since the Olympics, the place has changed and the people have realized there is another world out there. Yes, in SLC you will see Temple Square from just about any place. But you can buy a coffee, drink beer and so "real" movies there as well. One tip: don't move to Provo. I visited there last year and it is quite the hokey town. They played about 3 movies, all of which were edited to "G" rating and everything shuts down Saturday night around 10. Try getting some gas. It took us forever to find someplace that was open. Whatever you decide, please keep posting here. We will miss you if you leave (again).
68. Dave said:
Two words: San Francisco
The average price of a back yard here is only $479,999.
69. Mal said:
The hub is right, except that now the mo/nomo stats from SLC edge more toward 40/60 and will, in the next 5-10 years, approach 30-70. Plus, three words: skanky dyke bars. It's all about raising babies on 3300 South, kids. Check into it.
70. Katie said:
You were Mormon? This makes this webpage that much better.
71. Dave Thomas said:
Some of you aren't getting it. The Blurbo-Dooces LIVED IN UTAH. They've lived in several Utahn cities, including Salt Lake and Provo. They've visited more small Utah towns than most card-carrying polygamists. What's more, they've both been Mormon. In short, there's nothing any of you can tell them about Utah or Mormons. What's next? You going to warn Martians about the dangers of radiation exposure and red dirt?
72. HEY DAVE T. said:
excuse the fuck out of me...
73. Heather #2 said:
That was funny - the link. Although my coworkers were a little, how shall I say - disturbed?
74. MRKINLA said:
The only arguments I could provide against moving from L.A. would be the things I'd miss: KCRW, the sunlight on a "winter" afternoon when it's 72 degrees, random weirdness (ever have your best friend's mother, a Brentwood housewife, try to get you to start taking blue-green algae for your health?), being able to drive from sandy beaches to snowy mountains in two hours, Tuk Tuk Thai on Pico, Illiterature and Pulp on La Brea, LACMA, MOCA, the scary hooker that hangs out in front of the Salvation Army downtown that has a good $1 vinyl selection, the Huntington Gardens in Pasadena, tan toes, Angelyne sightings, the hamburgers at Father's Office on Montana, the Barnes & Nobles at the Grove (no, it's not just any Barnes & Noble -- oh no), the scent of night jasmine, birds of paradise in my front yard, Amoeba Records, a summer concert at the Hollywood Bowl, Sunset Junction in Silverlake, sadly reflecting that my hands are the same size as Marilyn Monroe's (and I'm a man) at Mann's Chinese Theatre, the 10 freeway at midnight, fireworks in the Marina, Griffith Observatory and the gates at Paramount and that fabulous sign for the real estate development called "Hollywoodland" ... I could go on and on. It's so expensive to live here because it's so many people's dream to be here. Not everyone's, and some very nasty, unstable, cruel people at that -- but I wouldn't trade it, at this point in my life, for anywhere else in the world.
75. dennis said:
Come to Canada! With those $2 you could buy something snazzy -- and you wouldn't have to suffer through Shlitz!
76. Dave Thomas said:
Well, whoever you are, you have a point. After all, Dooce asked to be talked out of it. There's just a lot of suppozin' and conjecturizin' and whatnot from some not-well-informed circles. Who am I to object?
77. rosebaby said:
oh god don't. at least visit regions north. portland is great, seattle is great, vancouver even, is great! i was born in LA and grew up mostly in Huntington Beach. i can't stand southern california anymore, but UTAH?!!! no no no. having a baby isn't enough reason to throw your life away. if you're too depressed to get up in the morning, no one will be happy.
move, by all means, move, just move to someplace reasonable.
78. anna said:
i just moved from atlanta (LA of the south) to arkansas (utah of the south) and i like it just fine.
go - have a baby. love your dog. take some AWESOME photos on the way there. and remember: you can always move back.
or whatever.
79. deadking said:
what the hell i guess your promises aren't worth much
80. michael said:
Well...I don't think I will be able to talk you out of it beacause my wife and I may be in the same boat soon.
We live north of LA and have a baby coming in a couple months and are also contemplating a move to Utah for similar reasons. Her family lives out there and we are damn near broke.
Good luck, maybe we can all hang out and drink beer & coffee in secret.
81. Zeek said:
I'm with Dennis on this one - the sticker price on Toronto real estate is about half that of LA, and given that the C$ is just about on par with the peso...
Also - great summers, all the gross weather you can handle come winter, and only 45 minutes to the snowbelt for snowboarding/blading/skiing.
AND (added bonus) "dry county" is a completely foreign concept (I actually had to get someone to explain it to me).
I'm afraid your sister's hair doesn't live here though. Hmm...
82. megchem said:
I'm applying for a job in Boulder, CO....CO is cool...so is MT...I miss Bozeman, great family town and the mountain is 16 miles from town and the midwife in the town rocks! My back yard in LA only cost 280k, but i haven't met many parents that i like.
83. Stan said:
Come on back Dooce. This is the most beautiful place in the world.
84. Render said:
Don't do it Dooce. I am living vicariously through your stories of L.A. Your brushes with fame, etc. First your indie cred, now this?! Your cool quotient is plummeting. You can't afford to do this to yourself. ;-)
85. statia said:
Sure, bukkake might be legal, but think, no oral sex. That means no getting either. Quite frankly, that's reason enough for me to never even visit Utah. I wonder if they were busting people in hotel rooms during the Olympics. Hmm.
86. Lisa said:
When California got too expensive for me, I moved to Hawai`i. It's not that much cheaper, but at least if you end up homeless you won't starve or freeze.
87. ericalynn said:
ooh, man. Don't do it. I lived in Ogden, Utah for all of eight months and I thoroughly regret each one. Bad food. Stupid alcohol laws and watered down alcohol, everyone Mormon and completely not understanding of those who aren't - especially those who have left Mormonism... I am sure I don't need to go on. You both know all this. Please don't go!
88. Neal said:
Well, at least Utah will provide a myriad of new material for the site.
89. alan said:
Born and raised in Ogden, UT. Utah has screwed up politics and growing up there as a non-Mormon can be difficult. On the other hand, it's beautiful, has a very strong non-Mormon culture , and -gasp- can be a really nice place to live. Honestly. Most people really have no damn idea. It would be like saying "Boston?! Hell, you can't move to Boston! There are Catholics there!" Also, while I agree with ericalynn that Ogden is a culinary wasteland, it is home to my very favorite microbrewery: Roosters on 25th St. Go to SLC to go out for dinner. Did I mention the skiing? Good luck in the move.
90. scared of mullets said:
ChrisWhere else can you get a 2 bedroom apartment for 425 dollars a month? Answer, Arcata California....
91. Jeanette said:
How could you move from where it all happens to where it never happens? DON'T GO!!!!!
I must admit though, I have often wondered how anyone could ever afford to live out there. WTF is up with the high ass CA prices?
92. PDX SUX said:
Well, I used to LOVE Portland. But now it's a piece of poo, IMHO.
Second-worst unemployment in the country, rain out the ass, etc.
Sure, it's got Stephen Malkmus, artiness to spare and a nice feel and awesome urban planning. But it's also got an overwhelming expanse of rednecks and the houses are expensive. Shopping for a house, I ended up in "Felony Flats," which is a redneck ghetto with gravel/dirt roads in the midst of the city. Very "progressive."
Finally, with a 26% tax BEFORE income taxes on the plate potentially due to the up-for-vote legislation to socialize medicine, you gotta think twice about the fact that "high achievers" and the types that are exceptionally skilled will leave while the state gets invaded by basket cases from around the country looking for cheap medical care.
Portsburgh indeed.
93. Chukee said:
I think Utah sounds wonderful. Wonderful because you can actually consider buying a house in the Avenues - it won't cost $480,000 unless it has six bedrooms (not uncommon in Utah).
Wonderful because no one drives an Audi TT and complains about how down she is because her Daddy can't get her a newer one. Wonderful because generic cola comes in 3-liter bottles. Wonderful because I once bought an apple green cashmere coat at the DI for $8 (Utah has the best vintage).
My husband and I are designers in Venice who are actively marketing to overseas clients, so that we can move to Utah without anyone noticing. (I think we will go to Logan.)
Neither of us are LDS. He has lived there before, and I love it there. Besides, nowhere else is it so easy to be an "individual".
94. helenjane said:
guess i won't be going anymore, thanks for the advice!
95. Brook said:
I live in LA so I've always related to your weblog. I even saw you once at Starbucks, but I didn't say anything. It was just like when you saw Giovanni Ribisi in the elevator at the Sunset 5. It's not polite to bother celebrities. You're a celebrity in my book. It was the Sunset 5, wasn't it. You didn't mention the theater in the post but I knew it. See what I mean. If you go to Utah I'm going to be lost. I think Utah is a very bad place, don't go there. It's bad.
96. Billy said:
All I know about Utah, other than "Shake out that sleeping bag, man. There might be a scorpion or two in it," is that the fine on my speeding ticket was pretty small, considering how fast I was going. Good luck on the move.
97. Dave said:
Utah has beautifull countryside. Reminds me of my home country. Also as a snowboarding fanatic, i just gotta love UTAH (snoooow). Other than that, i don't know much about mormons or the stupidity of common folk.
98. brent said:
hurry your asses up, snow's comin!
dave, i love you
my dogs live in my yard. chuckles can visit.
99. Keith said:
FUCK! I finally get out to L.A. and you're moving away? This sucks. Do NOT rent from U-Haul. They are evil. They almost stranded me on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere for a night. Both the trucks they gave me broke down. Full details of my U-Haul hell -- which only occurred last week -- are available on my site or by request. And hey, any chance I'll get to meet you & the husband before you leave?
100. Robin said:
I LOVE Utah, I am not a mormon. I was just in Park City as a matter of fact!
101. Randy Newman said:
From the South Bay to the Valley
From the West Side to the East Side
Everybody's very happy
'Cause the sun is shining all the time
Looks like another perfect day
I love L.A. (We love it)
I love L.A. (We love it)
Vs
Land of the mountains high,
Utah, we love thee!
Land of the sunny sky,
Utah, we love thee!
Far in the glorious west,
Throned on the mountain's crest,
In robes of statehood dressed,
Utah, we love thee
102. Nikki Hoh said:
Grew up in L.A., moved away ten years ago, haven't thought about it since. Escape while you still can.
103. drew said:
i also grew up in l.a., burbank to be exact, but moved to wisconsin in '95. i don't miss it at all except for in&out burgers. my wife and i now own a farm house with a few barns on 5 acres (265,000 square feet) for 1/4 of that average backyard price. no joke.
get out while you can.
104. hey megchem! said:
pray that you don't get the job in boulder. boulder is L A M E. take it from one who moved here from austin. *sobs*
105. ALLISONIC said:
Well, if this isn't collective unconsciousness at work. Next week on FM Nation, they're going to Salt Lake City, Utah!!!!
106. Sara said:
I would like to point out that New Mexico is cheaper than Utah (someone mentioned a two-bedroom apartment for 425? you can get a fairly nice two-bedroom here for that [in big cities] or around 300 [in smaller cities and suburbs]), much less religious-conservative-Mormon than Utah, and has excellent OB-GYNs due to its high rate of teenage pregnancy.
Um.
Not that you should go to New Mexico, Dooce, but don't look at Utah as your only option. I know too many people who went crazy in Utah -- almost as many as went crazy in LA. ;)
107. dclay said:
What about moving home? Isn't it Tennessee? Lord knows livin' is cheap in the deep South, especially if you can "skin a buck" and "run a trot line".
108. Amstershiresauce said:
Madison, Wisconsin.
Cheaper cost of living, cool people, yet small town feel.
Good restaurants. Perfect distance from Chicago.
The skiing's not as good as Utah by far, but you would stand a better chance of surrounding yourselves with like minded cool-ass folk like yourselves.
109. rd said:
I live in a state that yesterday elected a Mormon Governor. Never in my WILDEST dreams would I have thought this could happen in New England. But it did. So, frankly, I can't talk you out of it because I'm still trying to comprehend yesterday's election results.
110. scp said:
Love the website, and as far as towns go would say Fort Collins, CO. One of the best smaller cities in the country, not as close as Boulder is to the skiing, but it doesn't suck like Boulder either.
111. Mark of Eagle Mountain said:
I just moved to eagle mountain from Louisville, KY. Beautiful and isolated. 45 minutes from Salt Lake.
http://www.utahrealestate.com has good listings.
"I think people tend to either be swayed by the church or reactionary to it--either way it's influencing you." --this sounds very true.
112. Another ExMo said:
Oh dear. I don't think I could do that, myself, and yet I'm very sympathetic to the, um, fiscal realities mentioned. How anyone affords to live in L.A. is beyond me. That said, there are 48 other states in the union that are neither colonized by Mormons, nor prohibitively expensive in which to live.
My mom, a TBM, considered moving back to Utah a couple of years ago. Two things dissuaded her: (1) though devoutly Mormon, there's just something about a whole state full of "her people" that has always put her off (she grew up there and got out as soon as she could), and (2) though housing prices sure do beat, say, most of California's, the salaries in Utah were also well below national averages for her field. So yeah, she'd pay less for a house, but she'd have been making much less as well.
What can I say? I guess do your research and see what you think. But I ain't gonna tell you to PRAY about it. :)
113. Tom-Thumb said:
Heather, Heather, Heather! What are you doing? After all we have talked about, you are going to be moving back into slavery, I sympathize for you and Jon. On a lighter night, we will get to see more pics of your sister's hair. Email me.
Tom
114. Shanni said:
My husband and I recently had to flee San Francisco and the insane cost of living there for the same reasons...I wanted a yard for my puppy and we want to have a kid eventually and those were not options in the bay area. Especially after enduring three dot com layoffs. My husband was talking about Utah for a while and I strongly resisted...I vowed to never go back. Now we live in Las Vegas. Las Vegas is cheap ($150,000 for a cute house) and no state tax! It's not my favorite place to live (I desperatly miss SF) but hey...it beats Utah! Just something to think about.
115. Shanni said:
Hi, me again. I just thought of some more reasons to consider Vegas. Lots of celebs come here so one can still have celebrity sightings. Also...no snow! One would not have to get special tires or wake up early to scrape off one's car windows and run the heat. Also...Vegas is 5.5 hours from Salt Lake and 4 hours from LA. Keep driving north and you can ski and camp...keep driving south and you can surf and shop! Yes, Vegas can be miserable in the summer but overall, it's a decent place to live and it's not halfway across the country like some of these people are suggesting. Did I already mention how cheap it is and that it's one of the fastest growing cities in the US?
116. Rachel said:
Utah is beautiful... think of all those lovely photo opportunities.
117. mary said:
I, too, am an x-mormon byu survivor who rocketed off to boston in order to escape mad mormoninity. Oddly enough, after a few years I began to miss the cheap rent, great Taco Bell service, tight knit alternative sub (VERY sub)culture & nearby canyons of Southern Utah. Every 2 weeks I consider moving back ... So, I look forward to your Utah blogs, just to feed my nostalgia.
118. Dave said:
Have you read the post about Giovanni Ribisi?
s*&t like that doesn't happen in Utah, oh no.
119. Bob Redford said:
Oh yeah? Spend an hour in Park City in January.
120. Kerry said:
I don't care where you decide to live, as long as you promise to write all about it.
121. drew said:
do they even have the internet in utah?!?
122. Antonio Monkerro said:
Hey, if you move to Utah, maybe you can catch some Olympic Bobsledding at Salt Lake! Whoo!......what? The Olympics are over? You mean they don't have them every year in the same place? Stay in LA, Dooce....or invent a time machine.
123. tornligament said:
GO!
124. Libbyo said:
Well, you know, not even from the US orginally, but love Utah and your site here. But then again, i am one of those "brainwashed mormons" so what do I know? Good luck with the baby thing. We are doing that ourselves.