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dooce® - dooce.com

And here I thought one was a total kick in the ass

This week I started a Momversation about the ethics of planned multiple births, or more specifically, holy cow, that woman has 14 kids. See here:

I wanted to bring this discussion here because I'm sure you've all got opinions about this story, and I'm willing to bet that a few of you let out a more than audible, "Do what?" when it was revealed that Nadya Suleman not only gave birth to premature octuplets, but that she also had six other kids waiting for her at home. And she lives with her mom. And she doesn't have a job. And the father is not involved whatsoever. Did that story just get weirder and weirder, or what, right? It got to the point where I wouldn't have been surprised if they reported that she kept all the placentas in her freezer so that if she ever ran out of strawberries she'd have something with which to make smoothies.

I remember where I was when I first heard about this story, and before any of the various details came out about this woman and her situation I told Jon, just wait. People are going to get all bent out of shape now about reproductive medicine. And in watching and reading the reactions to this story, I believe this is exactly what has happened. And dear lord, if people who struggle with infertility didn't need more heartache and obstacles put in their way. As I say in the video, it's such a shame that the media has turned this into such a circus, this isolated incident involving an obviously questionable and renegade doctor who I think holds most of the blame if there is any in this situation. And all it serves to do is make it harder for other people, other reasonable individuals, to explore their reproductive options. Because all of a sudden people are now saying asinine things about how women should be forced to adopt if they can't conceive a child without medicine, or how the people of California should be able to force Nadya to give up her children because their tax dollars are being used to help raise them. Yes, how about we give a multiple choice test to women and let a committee decide who is and who isn't fit to be a mother. Anyone with tattoos need not apply!

Is this an unfortunate and complicated situation? Absolutely, and I do not think it is physically possible for one person to take care of the basic needs of 14 children. She is going to need a considerable amount of help, and as much as people might be disgusted by Nadya, there are 14 children here who had no say at all as to what conditions they'd be born into. But again, I think this is an extremely isolated incident, and making sweeping statements and judgments about women's reproductive rights and options because of it is ill-conceived and bone-headed.

I can't believe I'm going to open comments on this because I imagine there will be a lot of screaming, but I'd love to hear from men and women who have struggled with infertility and would encourage others to listen to their side of this issue. Everyone play nice.

02.23.2009 Daily, Parenthood 795 comments

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  • Anonymous said:

    Woah. Jon is on Chicago public radio right now.
    surprise to me

    02.23.09 - 03:24 PM / 1
  • margie said:

    i think you are right to a certain extent. we have to be careful that we don't judge situations that we are really uninformed about. not that i agree with this situation, not that i want children brought into this world on a whim. it's a tough call. do i think the woman was wrong. probably.

    02.23.09 - 03:25 PM / 3
  • Holly said:

    I TOTALLY AGREE.

    that is all.

    02.23.09 - 03:26 PM / 4
  • Christabel said:

    Well said. I don't think I want a placenta smoothie. No matter how hungry I get.

    02.23.09 - 03:26 PM / 5
  • Anonymous said:

    I was fortunate enough to not struggle with infertility and my heart goes out to those who have. But Nadya Suleman wasn't infertile, she was single, there's a difference. And as much as people have demonized her, and maybe rightly so, the bottom line is that there are 14 babies to worry about, and proposing to take them away from their mother isn't a solution. And making an example of Nadya Suleman in reference to other infertile couples doesn't make sense either.

    02.23.09 - 03:28 PM / 6
  • Daddy Scratches said:

    When my wife and I were going through fertility treatments, I said to our doctor, "I don't want to end up on the 'Today' show with multiple kids."

    She said, "We consider anything more than twins to be an unsuccessful treatment."

    I concur.

    Single birth, both times, vasectomy, the end.

    Litters of 6 and 8? INSANE under the best of circumstances, which this clearly isn't. Glad I only have to watch from a distance.

    02.23.09 - 03:29 PM / 7
  • Amanda said:

    Tax dollars aside, I do think it sounds like it would be in the best interests of those children to be placed into loving homes where there are parents (1, 2, same-sex, whatever) who are capable of caring for them fully. As has been said, it's not our place to judge, but it certainly doesn't look like she will be able to care for these children. If that's the case then they need to be put in homes where they can be cared for appropriately.

    Thanks for being brave enough to open this up.

    02.23.09 - 03:30 PM / 8
  • thisgirlremembers said:

    Yes. Yes, yes yes. Sad and unfortunate and unethical on the part of the doctor? Absolutely. Representative of women seeking fertility treatments? Not on your life. Thank you, Heather, for sharing your perspective.

    02.23.09 - 03:31 PM / 9
  • Kara Lang said:

    I think that you are absolutely right, Heather. One swallow does not a summer make, and one woman who has had 14 children should not invalidate the rights of others to have IVF, Adopt, etc. I believe that this woman needs help, perhaps mental help, and I believe we should examine the doctor who agreed to this much more closely.

    02.23.09 - 03:31 PM / 10
  • Miranda said:

    Quite frankly, the woman disgusts me. Sure, I don't know her. But what person brings eight more lives in to the world when she already has a hard time taking care of the six (3 of which are DISABLED) children she already has. And now their house might be taken away. What? She's begging for tv show deals and looking at million dollar homes. No thank you. I put all the blame on the doctor.

    02.23.09 - 03:32 PM / 11
  • Melissa said:

    I think her situation has less to do with fertility treatments and more to do with the crazy. It's sad that those poor children are being taken down buy her own self-pity. Bring on fertility treatments to those who need it. No for those who have no means to raise a family and no self-worth.

    02.23.09 - 03:33 PM / 12
  • Lorelei Goulding said:

    I think the doctor should be investigated....

    02.23.09 - 03:34 PM / 13
  • Amber said:

    Reproduction is so personal, I hate to make judgements on others. That said, what Nadya did was wrong. Thank you Daddy Scratches for your comment, because that's what we always see on TV are the people who had litters. The people with reasonable doctors and outcomes are not "newsworthy."

    02.23.09 - 03:34 PM / 14
  • Anonymous said:

    I'm amazed at the stupidity and irresponsibility of the doctor. When a friend of mine had invitro, they implanted only 3 eggs. The most she could have had (unless the eggs divided) would have been triplets. Luckily for her, she had a single baby. But implanting 6 (I think that was the number and then 2 divided) into a woman who already had 6 kids that she wasn't able to afford to raise is incredibly irresponsible. But then again, should the doctor have to do background checks and research? I don't know the answer here, I'm just rambling.

    I don't think there should be an invitro backlash, but I do think that there's been concern for several years about putting too many eggs "in". This is what happened to Jon & Kate Plus Eight, as well as many of the other multiple births that have made the news. It causes a lot of problems for the poor underweight premature babies, as well as high risk for the mothers. Not a good idea.

    02.23.09 - 03:34 PM / 15
  • Miranda said:

    However, I forgot to mention that I do not believe her doctors poor business choices should make it harder for others choosing to take the route of fertility treatments. It's a very sad situation.

    02.23.09 - 03:34 PM / 16
  • Teri said:

    Where is Solomon? We could all use his wisdom in a case such as this!

    02.23.09 - 03:35 PM / 17
  • Brat said:

    I think that woman needs psychiatric help.

    02.23.09 - 03:35 PM / 18
  • L. said:

    My main issue is with the doctor/s who allowed this treatment to go ahead. It might be a wild suggestion, but how about doing some background checks and psychological screening for a woman who shows up at your office asking for 8 embryos to be implanted. I think anyone who wants fertility treatment should be questioned about the size of their families, previous pregnancies, etc etc. Don't the doctors need that kind of background information before they can do such a big procedure? If you want to adopt a child you're subjected to the third degree, shouldn't it be the case with this as well? Actually I thought taking a background history was a part of all medical procedures...

    I guess the problem is that people might start saying that doctors don't have the right to decide who deserves to have children. But I do think there's a huge difference between most sane individuals who want IVF and this case. From the limited press I've seen about this issue, the woman does seem to be a little... not right. You wanted a big family? Six kids IS a big family.

    Also I'm a little confused how she could actually afford the treatment if she's living at home with her mother?

    02.23.09 - 03:36 PM / 19
  • Patey said:

    I can't fathom what this doctor was thinking. How come all the attention has been on Ms. Suleman and not the doctors who actually allowed this to happen? Sure she seems to be suffering from some kind of mental illness but how did a doctor allow her to add so many more children, especially when the ones she already had have special needs?

    WTF, doc?

    02.23.09 - 03:36 PM / 20
  • Miranda said:

    Did she say how she afforded the procedure? I think I might have missed that. And the plastic surgery. Where did all this money come from? Should've been put towards her six children she already had.

    02.23.09 - 03:36 PM / 21
  • mmc said:

    As Daddy Scratches mentioned, fertility doctors don't USUALLY implant more than two eggs at one time. Typically, the cases with multiple births are a result of IUI, not IVF. I think the vast majority of the blame belongs to the doctor here, because the mother seems to be pretty unstable.

    02.23.09 - 03:37 PM / 22
  • Linda said:

    I have two beautiful children born to other women, and I wouldn't change anything - even the fact that my husband and I used reproductive technology. Even though it didn't work. The clinic we used had a policy (imagine that!) and no more than two or three embryos (depending on their rating) were transferred back after fertilization. It's not the intent of IVF to have a women deliver a litter - this is the result of a bad doctor.

    02.23.09 - 03:37 PM / 23
  • Anonymous said:

    Should we legislate away people's choices? No. But, I feel perfectly comfortable saying that she made an irresponsible choice. That's judging, yes. I don't think having an opinion is wrong. I'm not scolding her. And, she put herself in the media by seeking out the attention and trying to raise money over the internet for her family.

    I would not want a doctor or anyone else to be evaluating my life and finances to see whether I should be allowed to have a baby. That puts people with fertility problems under scrutiny that others do not have to endure. Still, I think each person should not have children they are not able to care for and that is their evaluation to make. Some, like the mother of the octuplets, may not make good decisions in that arena. It doesn't mean that we should regulate the area. We should not respond to isolated poor decisions by taking away the freedoms of everyone else. The cost of regulation is too dear.

    02.23.09 - 03:38 PM / 24
  • Emily in Memphis said:

    I think it is WONDERFUL that you're opening this up to comments. However, I do hate to tell you that I'm going to be completely boring and...agree with you. I feel that this situation is completely sad, primarily because those 14 children will have to deal with an unrealistic amount of public scrutiny because of a seemingly unstable woman.

    I also feel the doctor has a great deal of explaining to do. A doctor should continually make decisions that are in the best interest of the patient. Clearly, it was unsafe to purposely implant so many embryos.

    I STRONGLY feel that any man and woman should have the right to explore all of their options when it comes to expanding their family. My husband and I had some slight issues that were (fortunately) quickly resolved with a change in medicine. However, some couples must find options that are more intense and sometimes invasive. No matter what, that is the woman or couple's choice.

    02.23.09 - 03:38 PM / 25
  • Claire said:

    Quite unfortunately, this is not an (extremely) isolated event. I just heard on the National Public Radio the other day an interview with a fertility doctor. He mentioned that injection of more than the recommended number (2 or 3 max) embryos into a woman's uterus is not too uncommon, but that this particular doctor had extremely low odds due to bad technique, so he was trying to bring up his stats by loading a few too many into Suleman. In addition to being upset by this type of medical practice, and Suleman's mental instability and lack of planning, I'm inexpressibly worried about the 14 children! What will become of them? Will they grow up and be able to fit into society? Will they even survive infancy?

    02.23.09 - 03:38 PM / 26
  • Jalene said:

    People's reproductive rights should NOT be messed with. That said, fertility treatments shouldn't be given out like candy. This woman was clearly plenty fertile all on her own. Why was no screening process conducted?

    I think people have the right to fertility treatments, but they also have the right to have them done ethically and properly.

    02.23.09 - 03:38 PM / 27
  • HDC said:

    Without even watching the vid, I think the look of disgust on your face in the poster frame pretty much says it all. The whole sordid mess tips the scale on sad.

    02.23.09 - 03:39 PM / 28
  • Amanda said:

    I think that this woman is not only irresponsible, she is in need of mental help (cuckoo for cocoa puffs!)
    She is incredibly insensitive to those who need help conceiving. Many of those women never do conceive, and while that is not "Octo Mom"s fault she is a fertile babies-mixed- in-a-lab receiving machine, it sure is a slap in the face to those who are never successful.
    The doctor who is responsible for those 14 babies (I read all/almost all were conceived through fertility treatments from the same doc) is unethical and should have his license taken away. A woman with 6 kids doesn't need a greater than average amount of embryos put in her! She needs to get a job to feed the first 6!
    All I can do is hope these children grow up without any lasting harm done and that they make better decisions then their mother.

    02.23.09 - 03:39 PM / 29
  • Professional Critic said:

    Absolutely agree. This is an isolated incident of a group of people with questionable judgment and motives and should not AT ALL extend to the vast majority of people that use fertility treatments appropriately.

    02.23.09 - 03:40 PM / 30
  • Jeffeners said:

    Have you seen the photos of Suleman's parents' home? Before they added 8 more babies? wtf, indeed.

    02.23.09 - 03:40 PM / 31
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